oywz

原帖由 东门吹牛 于 2006-7-11 15:48 发表


要弄清楚这样的一个事实，牛顿的出名不是因为他晚年研究了宗教。而是因为他在物理学上作出了杰出贡献，相信坐在电脑前的绝大部分观众朋友都是因为后者才认识了牛顿。不是的请举手，我相信举手的肯定是极少数。 ...

That is also what I want to tell these christians in the former article. But they were easy to misunderstand it.........

The truth is much better than argument.

[ 本帖最后由 oywz 于 2006-7-11 16:21 编辑 ]

oywz

原帖由 Helen101 于 2006-7-11 20:18 发表


WZ, 你要是能把你句子中的"That is also what I want to tell these christians " 改成"That is also what I want to tell my christian friends",我们会好受些．
我们是朋友，不是吗？

Sorry, my English is not as good as Chinese.
It probably hurt you. Next time, I will take care.

oywz

原帖由 粽子！粽子！ 于 2006-7-12 19:21 发表


WZ 你的强力英文帖让我每天都要多吃几篇面包，实在太费脑力了！！！:Q
我本身英文就不好，还要看你的“not as good as Chinese”的English实在是为难我了啊！！

不知WZ兄什么时候才能写写中文啊？那可是我 ...

I am sorry that the operation system doesn't surpport inputing Chinese.
If you do mind having eaten too much, I would like to pay for the bread you have eaten more. :P

oywz

原帖由 东门吹牛 于 2006-7-15 14:29 发表
回羿弓求箭。

对你的耐心，和毅力佩服的五体投地，这么长的帖子你竟然一口气看完了，而且还一口气加工了这么长的帖子出来批驳我我半个月来的帖子。如此高产，我自认做不到。你实在让我为难，如果不回复么，让人 ...

别人笑我太疯癫，我笑他人看不穿........

也挺佩服"羿弓求箭"的,俺自信也没这个时间精力和耐心把这么多的贴子一一列举评论，呵呵
岂不闻事属难能，所以可贵欤？
羿弓求箭兄，俺对你简直太崇拜了!!

PS:东门兄，请克制。情绪冲动的时候容易犯错误。
另：还是把精力和时间主要放在学习考试上对不对?

[ 本帖最后由 oywz 于 2006-7-15 22:08 编辑 ]

oywz

原帖由 粽子！粽子！ 于 2006-7-17 16:38 发表


这句话蛮有意思， 记下来了
“吹牛”朋友， 不要介意， 我只是从来没有听过这句话，觉得很有趣，没有其他意思。

笨！
为啥就想到＂拍＂和＂打＂呢？
捞出来放在水里一洗不就行了吗？兄弟你实在有洁癖还可以用用现代化点的手段例如超声波洗涤之类的嘛。
劳动人民在古代认识和生产力局限可以理解的，嘿嘿
Open your mind and use your head, you will have good ideas........

PS: 嗯........又不是掉到粪坑里了，只是掉灰里了。你这块豆腐还可以吃的^_^

[ 本帖最后由 oywz 于 2006-7-17 17:16 编辑 ]

oywz

Nodding.......
We can't accept any opinions without any judgement even the opinions are told by the great man.
Indeed some christian even told lies in order to let people believe their religion, which is too bad and unpleasant.

The writor of this article has written many other articles against christian religion. He is famous. Here is his web against christian religion.
http://www.xys.org/pages/christianity.html

As I know, there is a web that has many links to other webs about "agaist christian religion". Some webs are in traditional Chinese, which someone is probably not used to.
http://hk.geocities.com/exanti_christendom/main.htm

Actually I am not agaist christian religion so much. But in my opinion, it is a good way to know the religion in other aspects. From some truth, christian religion really has some danger to the society if there is no guide and contol.

[ 本帖最后由 oywz 于 2006-8-26 20:05 编辑 ]

oywz

"倘若耶稣没有来，这个世界会落在何等的黑暗中！"

You are too humorous....... From your article, it seems that people before christian religion appeared had lived in the darkness.
But from the history, it is not true. When the christians control the society in the middle age, people actually lived in the darkness!

The christians religion has not only some advantages, but also has some disadvantages(For other religions, such cases are similar). Why do the christians prefer to only see the advantages? Maybe it is not easy for the christians to accept the disadvantages and some truth until now, although one who accept this can be considered brave. After all, the number of brave person is really small.

oywz

原帖由 粽子！粽子！ 于 2006-8-30 00:52 发表


I prefer to hear the disadvantages such as the advantages.
So can you tell me the disadvantages.

我知道在中世纪基督徒所犯下的种种罪行，以及在现今也有基督徒，在社会上其了不好的影响。
但就我目前看 ...

There are some webs about "the disadvantages". I have copied the adress or the link of these webs in my previous article. You can have a look or read some other history books as you like if you don't  regard these opinions as the thinkings of devil.

About what you have said, the cases are similar in other religions, except that the harm to the society of some other religions is not so much. But why many people criticize christian religion so much more? have you ever thought about it? Have you ever considered seriously the defect of your religion despite your feeling to your religion? Here I would like to cite some sentences in an article(I am sorry it is in traditional chinese, for I only copy directly), though my opinion is not exactly the same as the writor:
有人認為那些都只是人／基督徒的問題，不是基督教／教義／神的問題。公平點說，我承認這態度並沒有錯。我認為思想本身並無好壞，問題是人如何利用它。可是，我想問問被普遍認為是邪教的奧姆真理教，有誰真正了解它的教義後才說它是邪教？另外，假如思想本身不夠嚴謹，可以很容易地導人向善，而帶人入邪道又不難，那我反而覺得這好像變色龍的思想更是危險。
The original article is here:
http://hk.geocities.com/exanti_christendom/leave26.html

I think it is a wise thing for the coutries in the west to split the politics and religion apart, which indeed reduces the harm of religion because they accept the lessons from the history.

Also there are some "free christians" who think that something in the bible is not the truth or absolutely correct. As we know, there are some conflicts between the bible and the discovery in science. What do you think? Do you consider everything in the bible as "absolute truth" or "absolutely right" ?

[ 本帖最后由 oywz 于 2006-8-30 12:03 编辑 ]

oywz

"但也要明确一定，圣经不是百科全书，不要以科学研究的态度来看圣经，毕竟写圣经的人不是搞科研的。"
Are you kiding? The christians always declare that the bible is "written" by the "God" who is regarded to know everything........

I think you don't really have a look at the webs in detail I refered to you. Are you afraid that you will lose confidence or "FAITH" in your religion? About the theory of Darwin, your answer is probably according to some books published by the christian's organization. I can't say that it is wrong, because my major is not biology and I have never studied it in detail. Nevertheless it is not a good thing to only listen to the christian's organization. Why don't you see other explanation?
http://www.xys.org/pages/christianity.html
(in the part "神创论批判", you can find some other explanatian about the description in your article.)
About "钱锟博士", please see this article with different opinion:
http://www.xys.org/xys/netters/Fang-Zhouzi/evolution/Haeckel.txt

Many theories and rules in science are always keeping develeped and modyfied, as you have mentioned, which is actually an important and attractive character of science. For the theory of Darwin, there are still some discussion about the details between scientists, which doesn't mean that this theory is wrong. Every scientific theory is not really "perfect". Yes, Scientific theory is not "absolutely correct" or "absolute truth".

There are some other articles I would like share with you and others who are interested in this:
http://www.xys.org/xys/netters/Fang-Zhouzi/religion/darwin_christianity.txt   (达尔文评基督教)
http://www.xys.org/xys/ebooks/others/philosophy/Einstein.txt(我的世界观 by 阿尔伯特·爱因斯坦)
According to the bible, they both will go to hell. That is an intersting thing. I think those who don't believe christian religion have the chance to see them and have a talk with them in the hell in future.

http://www.xys.org/xys/netters/Fang-Zhouzi/religion/aa8.txt(科学对宗教的世纪审判（上）)
http://www.xys.org/xys/netters/Fang-Zhouzi/religion/aa9.txt(科学对宗教的世纪审判（下）)
http://www.xys.org/xys/netters/others/essays/jidutu2.txt
The article is written by a man who had ever been a christian.

oywz

"既然您也知道有些科学理论也是要凭信心接受的"
Actually, the theory of science must be proved using enough proofs before it is accepted, which is different from the case of religion. Whether the proofs that surpport the theory of Darwin is enough or not, I only say that I don't know. The scientists are still looking for these proofs in order to study the details of evolution. Most of Scientists have considered this theory to be right or at least reasonable until now because so many proofs have been found, except that many christians are agaist it because the theory is not in agreement with the bible. But even some other christians admit that "evolution theory" is right after all.
http://www.xys.org/fang/doc/religion/pop.txt
Indeed, the scientists are very careful, sometimes too careful, to accept the scientific theory. There are other examples for the scientific theory. Boltzmann, you know his important contribution to statistic mechannics, had ever been very disappointed because most scientists at that time din't agree with his theory and at last he killed himeself. After his death, many scientists began to accept his theory and proved that his theory is coorect. Einstein is lucky. He sticked to his relative theory although so many scientists are against him until some experimental truth which surpport his theory appeared. Even though, he didn't get Nobel Prize for his relative theory because the proofs of relative theory are not enough yet(He received the Nobel prize for another contribution). If the relative theory is not agreement with the bible, I think many christians also probably tend to be agaist it.

"毕竟我们都是用信心过日子的"
Your "FAITH" is not others' FAITH, at leatst is not the same as mine.
http://www.xys.org/xys/ebooks/others/philosophy/Russell/10jie.txt
(Although my opinion is a little bit different, I think most of his ideas are reasonable.)

"若ajie1a您是出于对我们的关心，因为看到我们“走错路”了，才这么心急地对我说“你一定不信我有什么办法？”，那么我在这里感谢您。"
So, can you understand those who don't believe your religion? You will not change your religion even if others tell you that it is not right. Why the christians always want to let others believe your religion? Do you respect others' freedom of thinking and the freedom about religion?
"己所不欲，勿施于人". Is it?