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发表于 2010-9-30 08:19
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内：他们都是杀人犯？都是抢劫犯？他们都走私毒品？rs238848.rs.hosteurope.de4 ]! g4 Q" p, D
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AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： Have they all killed? Have they all robbed? Have they all trafficked drugs?人在德国 社区% d" f5 q0 Y r
! l8 U3 h# w) `7 `% O! t6 |人在德国 社区 金：我不知道这与什么有关，好的，我们将马上回来。
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X4 u" c& B5 s3 [' L n. f KING: I don’’t know what that has to do with it. All right, we’’ll be right back。# ?6 `$ ~3 f/ Q; g7 V1 \' z, {
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金：好的，就人权议题，不过，你必须承认你对学生、言论自由的捍卫者采取了严厉的打击措施，人们因为发表言论、在街头上举行示威活动而遭到逮捕，你不能说，伊朗在人权问题上有一个开放的良心，在人权问题持开放立场。你无法这样说。
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, U# k6 x- h; U/ v- nrs238848.rs.hosteurope.de KING: All right. On the human rights issue, though, you must admit that you have students, defenders of free speech that you have taken strong actions against, people in jail for just speaking their minds, protesting in the streets and arrested. You can’’t say that Iran has opened -- open conscience to human right -- is open for human rights to all. You can’’t say that。
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内：甚至在我不在这里的时候，你可以说这样的事情，对吗？所以，你为何在我在这里的时候提及这样的事情？
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AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： You can say these things even if I’’m not here, right? So why would you need to mention it while I am here?
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* m0 o9 g( o: {; s5 E 金：因为你是一个国家的元首，而且，
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& N/ b5 b% J% L0 P8 z KING: Because you’’re the head of the country and --rs238848.rs.hosteurope.de. {9 M2 j+ r: K$ p0 [& K% x1 z
6 D2 h8 I, [2 K- R: [( g% i 内贾德：你看来是在审判，你在审判，我问你问题，美国有250万犯人，为什么？6 f+ s* G* z) u$ P$ Y1 w! b* c
) y! Y1 T% a% E$ e( ]rs238848.rs.hosteurope.de AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： It seems you are judging. You are judging. I asked the question. There are 2.5 million prisoners here and why --
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金：他们不是因为在街头发表观点而入狱的，对这一议题进行比较性研究，他们不是因为举一个标语牌而入狱的。
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6 ?( ^) b* d8 b7 r5 X KING: They’’re not in prison for speaking out on the streets --
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# v8 {, n6 D& B! d4 Z, J: d- B, k KING: -- comparative study of this issue. KING: They’’re not in prison for holding up a sign。
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+ q6 D! q; `2 T; a1 @人在德国 社区 内：请允许我，在伊朗，没有人因为参与抗议示活动而入狱，没有人因为参与抗议活动而被送入监狱。人们可以自由地举行抗议活动，但是如果在这里发生了抗议示威活动，有人袭击了警察并杀害了警察，你是否会奖励他们？ T0 B8 A6 i) U! E. {* l
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AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： Allow me -- in Iran, nobody is in prison because of participating in protests. Nobody went to prison because of participating in protests. Protests are free. But say if you had protests here and somebody attacked the police and killed the police, would you reward them?' p9 _8 y' j, N
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金：当然不会。; e& D$ Y& w% M" j( [
2 W8 k7 m5 p/ l+ E4 Z+ f6 ] KING: Of course not。
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内：你是否会奖励他们？为什么你会认为伊朗将奖励他们？如果有人违反了法律，案件将交由法官处理，案情将得到研究和审理？为什么美国的犯人入狱是因为法律问题，而伊朗犯人入狱就是非法的？在伊朗也有法律过程。伊朗发生过人们在抗议示威活动时袭击警察的事件，警察提出了控告，法官得处理这些案件。 M+ E/ l( K7 g( l
6 d% p N0 v" ]0 n 现在，在美国，你告诉我，那些在监狱里的是罪犯，但在伊朗监狱里的是自由追求者？这很可怕。为什么美国当局总是试图支持那些在伊朗违反法律的人？这并不有助于美国的形象，只会恶化美国的形象。
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) c2 g4 v3 @- y$ a AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： Would you reward them? Why would you expect Iran to reward them? If anyone violates the law, the case has to go before a judge and it has to be examined and taken care of? Why is it only in the United States that prisoners are in prison for legal issues, legally; whereas in Iran, they’’re in prison illegally? In Iran, too, there’’s a legal process. There’’s been incidents where there have been protests and people attack the police. The police file complaints and the judge takes care of the issue。
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Now, in the United States, you’’re telling me those in the prison are criminals, but in Iran those who are in prison are freedom seekers? That’’s awful. Why is it that U.S. authorities are always trying to support and back people who violate the law in Iran? This doesn’’t help the image of the United States. It just worsens it。人在德国 社区: Y+ V. ~) R0 }
8 \& P. {. g2 i; ]人在德国 社区 金：我们将无法解决这一问题。在那一领域的另一问题：你是否允许伊朗进行石刑？那名妇女获得了很多的关注？你是否允许石刑在伊朗合法？
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KING: We’’re not going to resolve that. One other thing on that area; do you still permit stoning in Iran? We’’ve had a lot of attention paid to that lady -- about that lady. Do you permit stoning lawful in Iran?
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. i4 f" ?* `, y9 m6 ~3 Q 内：我认为我在过去几天已向记者们就此给出了解释。那名妇女的案件还没有完全审理完毕，还没有就此作出判决。她被控杀害了她的丈夫。我认为如果有人被控谋杀了她的丈夫，人们就会涌上街头，举行支持她的集会？rs238848.rs.hosteurope.de: r3 V; z( g6 D% o% W
' v2 R4 j6 J& f1 ~: [9 Q. x人在德国 社区 AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： I think that I have explained this in the past couple of days to a number of reporters. This lady’’s case has not been completely examined yet. No verdict has been issued yet. She is accused of being -- of murdering her husband. And I don’’t think in the world if someone is accused of murdering their husband, people would pour on the streets and rally in support of her。6 f2 H1 i3 p3 V% [
- R: Y/ V4 g. [+ V/ Z) O- v 金：如果他们将对她实施石刑，人们将会支持她。
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$ ^' c4 K a$ B4 T, E人在德国 社区 KING: If they were going to stone her, they would。rs238848.rs.hosteurope.de3 `: Q3 u; q1 D* i
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内：她被控谋杀了她的丈夫，还没有下达判决，没有下达判决，没有刑罚。
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AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： She has been accused of the murder of her husband. There is no verdict issued. No verdict, no sentence has been passed。人在德国 社区' Y& X$ m; J# H, N/ D; u
4 g4 K# e2 z1 b8 S6 z人在德国 社区 金：我所问的是# d" ^4 A: U4 Z; Z& M/ K
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KING: All I asked was --' t2 [+ R' p2 r% ? H
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内：这根本与石刑没有关系，根本没有作出石刑的判决。德国有人发表了这样的不实传闻。我们的司法部门已表示那一传闻不实。
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4 L5 _$ {, h( ers238848.rs.hosteurope.de 但我想向你提一个问题，拉里-金先生，如果可以的话，我们过去这个时候曾在一起。在匹兹堡举行过20国集会，10万人举行了示威活动以抗议20 国集团的经济政策。警方对他们发动了猛烈的攻击，许多人遭到痛殴，警方向他们泼热水，许多人遭到逮捕。你在告诉我，抗议示威活动在美国是自由的吗？rs238848.rs.hosteurope.de9 J. M1 d9 ~' y6 E
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所以在美国，你是否认为人们可以聚集在街头，抗议犹太复国主义政权，10万人？& P1 O8 D& z- \* C' w; x& M) R
: X7 `" K$ ?+ e) |( n7 A, ~人在德国 社区 AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： And it is not about a stoning case at all. There’’s no stoning sentence here at all. A person in Germany made this claim, which was untrue. Our judiciary also said it was a false statement。
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6 e! y" z4 ^9 o; z' A! b人在德国 社区 But I would like to ask a question to you, Mr. Larry King, if I may. Last year, we were here the same time. In Pittsburgh, there was a session. The Group 20; over 100,000 people protested against the economic policies of the G-20. The police attacked them violently. Many were beaten up with -- or hot water was thrown on their bodies and many were arrested. And you’’re telling me that protests are free in the United States?
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So here in the United States, do you think people can pour on the streets and protest against the Zionist regime, 100,000 people?% O& a! ]* f" B% a
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KING: I’’ve got a time -- I’’ve got to take a break. We’’ll be right back。
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; r4 I9 r. a+ G6 a 金：我们再次回到节目，你是否对美国有关在世贸遗址附近修建清真寺的争议有何看法？+ D. c7 y. y1 \9 e; y
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KING: We’’re back with the president of Iran. Do you have an opinion about the controversy in the United States over the building of that Islamic Mosque near where the events of 9/11 took place?
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1 @. a. u, ?: D. Z 内：我对此没有看法。如果要建设一座建筑物，市政当局或者市当局要对此进行研究，随后告诉人们他们的想法和决定，所以决定应由该市的人民和市当局作出。
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! K+ Q: ^8 J0 g; {" p n AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： I have no opinion on it. If a building is to be built, the municipal authorities or the authorities for the city have to examine it and then tell people what they think and what the decision is. So the decision is for the people of this city and its authorities to make。
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$ F! g: E7 i/ P- O7 \$ w. Z 金：你, l; F7 q1 H8 \. P4 w' j; D
& M; {. F7 a2 b4 T3 `7 @ KING: Do you --
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$ M" b9 L m, E6 X- z/ u ] 内：我能就此作出什么决定？
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AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： What decision can I make over it?
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金：你可能对此有看法。
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KING: You might have an opinion。
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内：我对此没有任何看法，我认为，作为一个基本规则，任何人都应当尊重祈祷场所、宗教场所和神圣的书籍。这是我的理解。人在德国 社区% R) |7 z4 D7 j' R7 l9 s" E* ?
! E9 ~! P" d+ d AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： I don’’t have any opinion on it. I think that everybody should respect, as a general rule, places of worship, the sanctities that human beings have, and to respect divine books. That I understand。
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! \& ?; }0 |0 L1 C: l+ l 金：中东问题会谈将很快再次在中东举行，你对我们在那一地区看到和平是否持乐观态度？7 v8 S! s/ D a) i5 i
- d0 u" ~/ z* l+ U, C' o KING: Talks are about to take place again in the Mideast, about the Mideast. Do you have any optimism that we will see peace in that region ever?5 T9 P8 \- t/ t0 E( V9 M! M# |3 r
) K: d, z' i4 O 内：是的，我非常乐观。没有希望，我们将无法更加努力地创造更好的生活。我认为，如果把人们的权利还给他们，和平将会到来。如果巴勒斯坦人民的国家主权得到承认，那里的问题将会得到解决。4 w" }: ?0 x; A) F
3 x; |6 s! j/ @5 ~3 l* N p AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： Yes. I am very optimistic. Without hope, we cannot try harder to build a better life. I think if people’’s rights are given to them, peace will come. If the right to national sovereignty of the people of Palestine is recognized, the problems there will be resolved。rs238848.rs.hosteurope.de: v! G' b5 x5 ~- i
4 V( q: {6 p2 Y- g 金：以色列安全的保证和承认以色列将如何处理？这应得到解决？我的意思是，这是事情的两个方面，是否是这样？不是只有一方应作出让步？这是一个双方的议题。
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( b* {7 d: ~& R. |6 frs238848.rs.hosteurope.de KING: How about the guarantee of the safety of Israel and the recognition that Israel is a country? Does that have to be solved? I mean, is -- this is both sides, isn’’t it? It’’s not just one side has to give in to create peace. It’’s a two-sided issue。: z7 ^6 y6 a8 e( k" _2 T
( H' ?* R$ t. r6 ]# V, A人在德国 社区 内：你的意思是我们应当坐下来，为巴勒斯坦人民决定他们要什么？我认为巴勒斯坦人民应当就此作出决定。
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AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： Do you mean that here instead we should sit and decide for the Palestinian people what they should want? I think the Palestinian people should decide about that --& e! z0 @- X j# [- O& r" D
# D8 h* ^+ v/ N, b- ?人在德国 社区 金：承认另一个国家？好的，我们只剩下很少的时间了。我们将马上回来。
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KING: -- recognize another state? All right. We only have a little time left. We’’ll be right back with our remaining moments。rs238848.rs.hosteurope.de! ]4 b- ?8 N5 j" w7 I3 m6 S
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% `: V3 x( X/ x% E: O( { 金：我们只剩下很少的时间。菲德尔-卡斯特罗不是资本家，你昨天称，资本主义是世界的一个主要问题。卡斯特罗对你否认犹太大屠杀持批评立场。他说，伊朗应当试图去理解反犹太主义的独特历史？你将如何作出回应？卡斯特罗肯定不是以色列的朋友。7 p3 U3 O/ Z0 b" }
2 s2 g* H5 W, v8 F* }rs238848.rs.hosteurope.de （NEWS BREAK） KING: We have only a few moments left. Fidel Castro, who is not a capitalist -- yesterday you said capitalism is the major problem in the world. Fidel Castro was critical of you for denying the Holocaust. He said that Iran should try to understand the unique history of anti-Semitism. How do you’’ respond to Castro? Certainly not a friend of Israel。
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5 l+ }( f1 J8 d6 u: [) H6 Grs238848.rs.hosteurope.de 内：除了这一新闻中有关犹太复国主义政权的议题之外，卡斯特罗昨天向我发了一信息，称那一声明不属实，他的声明被错误解读了，他说的不是媒体所报道的，我对这一说法不抱任何意见。
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但我想问美国为何如此坚决来保护犹太复国主义政权？美国政府与远在1万公里之遥的犹太复国主义政权有何关系，美国有什么必要支持它？
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4 F: c$ v( d1 b) C. d' J AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： Aside related to the Zionist regime issue this news -- Mr. Castro sent a message to me yesterday and said it was untrue, this statement, that his statements were interpreted differently, that he had said something different. So I have no opinion here on this statement。人在德国 社区3 o) Z8 u8 p; V: P( }4 ?$ `
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But I’’d like to ask why is there so much insistence in the United States to absolutely defend the Zionist regime? What is the relationship between the U.S. government, 10,000 kilometer across the ocean from the Zionist regime, and the need to support it?
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4 g8 {% X2 {$ a 金：因为有大量的犹太人仅仅因为是犹太人而遭到屠杀，七百万、八百万犹太人遭到屠杀。作为一个人道主义国家，我们对此很关注。许多犹太人来到这里生活。许多犹太人在以色列创造了一个国家，想在那里和平地生活。
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5 d) v& P( T- Y8 S+ X 你是否知道，卡斯特罗称，你应当认识到世界仍然存在反犹主义，我们应当对此感到关切。5 N) F- O5 W- h$ A) ~" |
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KING: Because a massive group of people were annihilated just for being what they were. Seven Million were killed, eight million. So as a humanitarian country, we care about this. And many Jews came here to live. And many Jews created a country in Israel and wanted to live in peace。
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Don’’t you -- now, Castro did say you should recognize anti- Semitism exists in the world, and we all should be concerned about it。
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内：这是否是一个真正的议题，美国政府想保护人权？人在德国 社区, y& }9 m& a' W& F/ ?' M- g
h. R0 c6 M, B( c7 M: L AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： Is that the real issue, that the U.S. government wants to defend human rights?% J9 R/ N! O7 n9 I/ a/ e
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金：当然。rs238848.rs.hosteurope.de$ N( ?" t' \$ f4 m7 I+ S6 F
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KING: Of course。
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2 V j% Y/ [9 Y, x3 u9 Y6 L4 m+ V' K 内：那些人是在哪里被杀害的？他们是在巴勒斯坦被杀害的吗？是被巴勒斯坦人杀害的吗？2 P! H4 J! n4 H# S1 i/ w9 k
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AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： Where were these people killed? Were they killed in Palestine? By the hands of Palestinians?
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3 c0 P4 i r5 _; A* |( o% m) g人在德国 社区 金：他们在哪里被杀害并不重要，事实是他们遭到了屠杀。! F4 k5 }+ `6 v. K$ d1 Y
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KING: It doesn’’t matter where they were killed, it’’s the fact that they were killed。' Z6 y S4 y8 _3 Y- F z; i# o
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内：哦，那么一百万伊拉克人被杀就可以吗？如果伊拉克人决定到美国来，占领美国，这是否被允许？他们是在伊拉克被杀的，你将允许他们来占领美国吗？
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' M$ e2 J3 M( i! O" Y9 L人在德国 社区 AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： Oh. Then it’’s all right for a million Iraqi people to be killed and then, would it be OK if they decided to come and occupy the United States? They were killed in Iraq. Would you allow them to come occupy the United States?人在德国 社区& S/ R( [1 D# y* j% x
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金：你是在说美国犯下了种族屠杀的罪行，你是在说美国犯下了种族屠杀的罪行？
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KING: You’’re not saying the United States committed genocide? You’’re saying the United States committed genocide?人在德国 社区7 C" `' M5 M% _. d. i) h7 p6 v+ U* |1 X, _
) I' t* G9 c) b* n7 Hrs238848.rs.hosteurope.de 内：这是一个单独的讨论，是的，这样的情况在伊拉克和阿富汗都发生了。但它是单独的议题。我想问你，如果在一个国家，一些人的权利遭到侵犯，他们遭到压迫，按照你的想法，如果你的说法是正确的话，这是否意味着他们可以去占领另一块土地？这是否符合逻辑？如果我们按照这种逻辑行事，世界还会有安全吗？
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1亿人或者8千万人在第二次世界大战中丧生，如果他们要占领世界各地的二十个国家，那将是非常可怕的。' v6 u% i% B& S1 j5 P
! K3 F" t |0 Z" ?6 P. @6 r! x/ @ AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： That’’s a separate discussion. And, yes, it did happen in both Iraq and Afghanistan. But that’’s a separate issue. I like to ask you, if in a country someone’’s rights are violated, they’’re oppressed, assuming that your assumption, your statement is correct, does that imply that they can go and occupy another land? Is there any logic in that? If we were to follow that logic, will there be any security left in the world?rs238848.rs.hosteurope.de' D8 y. D% G$ h X! z1 |% S
2 f9 e+ V9 s ~2 A( Y% K In World War II, 100 million -- or 80 million people were killed. If they were to go occupy 20 countries around the world, that would have been terrible。
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金：以色列是一个合法国家。rs238848.rs.hosteurope.de! x& a- T+ }! _6 x
! g% q3 S( ]$ V+ Z8 h1 s人在德国 社区 KING: Israel is a legal state。
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2 a4 A0 b# t J$ W% U. y 内：问题在于，问题是，你刚才说这是因为犹太大屠杀，你为何改变了说法？
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: Z1 D$ _8 \& e1 e人在德国 社区 AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： The question is -- come on. The question -- you just said yourself it’’s over the Holocaust. Why are you changing your statement?( K0 |6 R6 b$ h. X8 D- F
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金：你是在说
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- n5 [2 |! ?6 }' f KING: You were saying --rs238848.rs.hosteurope.de4 b \( V5 n S# W4 ?, {
' l R( d' y' _* O$ s) Trs238848.rs.hosteurope.de 内：我的问题是美国如此坚决保护以色列的利益是什么？在世界许多地方，人们的人权遭到侵犯。你知道有多少美国印第安人被屠杀？你是否知道？
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! n- L; |. H4 O4 i3 E* Y AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： My question is what are the interests of the United States to -- in absolutely defending them. There are many parts of the world where human rights are violated. Do you know how many American Indians were killed? Do you know or not?
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! Z7 l" |6 h( `$ q7 Q, [: urs238848.rs.hosteurope.de 金：我知道，我们的时间到了。
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& U5 ?& T* ]* X& D1 k7 |rs238848.rs.hosteurope.de KING: I know. We’’re out of time。: \0 ?& r, ~, |
5 `1 u$ N6 Y+ W" M# Drs238848.rs.hosteurope.de 内：你是一名记者，你应当有这些问题的答案。人在德国 社区( E7 z$ P, X; Q4 ]" Q0 m
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AHMADINEJAD （through translator）： You’’re a reporter. You should have the answers to these。5 U1 [) ?# x3 k/ K0 b A+ W7 @7 E
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金：我们没有时间了，我们明年将与伊朗总统再次进行讨论。我是拉里-金，不要走开。
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, b' z6 f/ c6 Q3 T KING: We’’re out of time. We’’ll pick this up next year with the president of Iran. I’’m Larry King. Don’’t go away。 |
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